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	<title>Comments for Citizens for Better Transit</title>
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	<link>http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress</link>
	<description>Opposing the Prop A Metro Tax in St. Louis County</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:53:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on 24thstate.com: The Metro Tax Lie by Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/2010/03/24thstate-com-the-metro-tax-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/?p=94#comment-47</guid>
		<description>Why do WashU-BJC employees and students get passes much cheaper than anyone else?
&lt;hr&gt;
Because it is a great way to &lt;del datetime=&quot;2010-03-01T23:21:15+00:00&quot;&gt;inflate ridership statistics by dumping a bunch of free riders into the system&lt;/del&gt; provide the students with access to our community&#039;s resources and business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do WashU-BJC employees and students get passes much cheaper than anyone else?</p>
<hr />
Because it is a great way to <del datetime="2010-03-01T23:21:15+00:00">inflate ridership statistics by dumping a bunch of free riders into the system</del> provide the students with access to our community&#8217;s resources and business.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Rail vs. Bus Rapid Transit: Which way should we go? by Annie</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/2010/02/rail-vs-brt/comment-page-1/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/?p=67#comment-31</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t quite understand, you want to end the suffering of Metro&#039;s customers (people who use public transit) by forcing Metro to cut more bus lines and schedules?  Or are you just hoping to punish all those people who rely on public transit in our city because Metro continues to be optimistic about the future of light rail here?  

If you attended any of the series of planning meetings Metro held, you would have heard an awful lot about light rail.  In polls, Saint Louisans love the Metrolink.  They like light rail and they want more of it.  They like that it&#039;s reliable.  I think they&#039;d be just as happy with BRT.  This would have been something really important to bring up to Metro as they were constructing the plan, not after.  

If you like public transit, but you&#039;re opposed to light rail in the future of St. Louis, wouldn&#039;t your time be better spent talking with the East West Gateway Council (who will be making the final decision on what actually gets constructed or not) than opposing a measure to fund ALL public transit?
&lt;hr&gt;
I seek to &lt;b&gt;prevent&lt;/b&gt; further suffering by defeating this tax increase, thereby forcing Metro to drop plans to expand light rail. As I&#039;ve said before - and I am speaking for myself personally, not the entire organization - if Metro had put forth a modest tax increase for operating funding, without the expansion promises they&#039;ve made here, I wouldn&#039;t be working against it. I do believe that transit is important, and as we&#039;ve seen, a bankrupt transit system isn&#039;t going to serve us well.

As to speaking with East-West Gateway, I have as much influence on them as the man on the moon. And regardless, I think it&#039;s a reckless, foolish practice to give them a pile of money, without any way of controlling how it is spent. 

And of course, you&#039;re missing the most important point of all: East-West Gateway is controlled by the same people who are going to drop a million dollars in support of Proposition A, the contractors and unions who will earn millions of dollars building new rail lines. They aren&#039;t giving out of the kindness of their heart, and they aren&#039;t giving so that Metro can afford to buy some new buses. And you can be sure they aren&#039;t planning to wait 20 years for their payback either, no matter how broke it leaves Metro.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t quite understand, you want to end the suffering of Metro&#8217;s customers (people who use public transit) by forcing Metro to cut more bus lines and schedules?  Or are you just hoping to punish all those people who rely on public transit in our city because Metro continues to be optimistic about the future of light rail here?  </p>
<p>If you attended any of the series of planning meetings Metro held, you would have heard an awful lot about light rail.  In polls, Saint Louisans love the Metrolink.  They like light rail and they want more of it.  They like that it&#8217;s reliable.  I think they&#8217;d be just as happy with BRT.  This would have been something really important to bring up to Metro as they were constructing the plan, not after.  </p>
<p>If you like public transit, but you&#8217;re opposed to light rail in the future of St. Louis, wouldn&#8217;t your time be better spent talking with the East West Gateway Council (who will be making the final decision on what actually gets constructed or not) than opposing a measure to fund ALL public transit?</p>
<hr />
I seek to <b>prevent</b> further suffering by defeating this tax increase, thereby forcing Metro to drop plans to expand light rail. As I&#8217;ve said before &#8211; and I am speaking for myself personally, not the entire organization &#8211; if Metro had put forth a modest tax increase for operating funding, without the expansion promises they&#8217;ve made here, I wouldn&#8217;t be working against it. I do believe that transit is important, and as we&#8217;ve seen, a bankrupt transit system isn&#8217;t going to serve us well.</p>
<p>As to speaking with East-West Gateway, I have as much influence on them as the man on the moon. And regardless, I think it&#8217;s a reckless, foolish practice to give them a pile of money, without any way of controlling how it is spent. </p>
<p>And of course, you&#8217;re missing the most important point of all: East-West Gateway is controlled by the same people who are going to drop a million dollars in support of Proposition A, the contractors and unions who will earn millions of dollars building new rail lines. They aren&#8217;t giving out of the kindness of their heart, and they aren&#8217;t giving so that Metro can afford to buy some new buses. And you can be sure they aren&#8217;t planning to wait 20 years for their payback either, no matter how broke it leaves Metro.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Rail vs. Bus Rapid Transit: Which way should we go? by Annie</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/2010/02/rail-vs-brt/comment-page-1/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/?p=67#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Prop A will fund BRT before it funds any light rail.  

We can&#039;t have BRT unless Prop A passes.  Metro&#039;s plan includes BRT routes at a much higher priority than light rail. (BRT is in the five year plan as opposed to the 30 year plan for light rail.)  However, we cannot fund any BRT or most of the busses that already run if prop A fails.  

You also mention real-time arrival information for BRT.  This is something Metro is working on for all bus routes, again, if they have the money to pay for it.  A GPS in each bus isn&#039;t cheap.  By the way, the real-time arrival information in Chicago is for all regular buses, Chicago is just now beginning to introduce a BRT pilot program.  

BRT is a really excellent form of public transit, and I sincerely hope that we vote on April 6th in favor of funding it!
&lt;hr&gt;
Well, we agree on one thing: BRT ought to be a big part of Metro&#039;s future. But that is where we must part ways, as I don&#039;t believe Proposition A is how we ought to accomplish it. The poison pill of light rail promises, which are the reason the Pro-A campaign is receiving huge contributions from construction and engineering firms which couldn&#039;t care less about bus service, are reason enough to defeat this tax.

Some time ago, I spoke at length with a high ranking Metro official about Proposition M. I told him that if Metro needed operating funds, they should ask for operating funds, rather than bundling it into a package with rail expansion. A reasonable operating levy, with appropriate accountability measures, is something I would not personally oppose. If that levy was used productively, it would go a long way to restoring Metro&#039;s credibility as it seeks funding for future expansion.

Instead, Metro has decided to continue to seek &quot;the whole package&quot; right now, forcing those who don&#039;t have absolute faith in Metro or who disagree with light rail expansion to choose between starving Metro or funding rail. My view is that since it is Metro who has imposed this choice on voters, I have no difficulty in opposing the measure. Sadly, Metro&#039;s customers will suffer from their dumb decision, at least until operating funding can be secured. But Metro customers have been suffering from dumb decisions for a long time. Ending that is what I&#039;m all about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prop A will fund BRT before it funds any light rail.  </p>
<p>We can&#8217;t have BRT unless Prop A passes.  Metro&#8217;s plan includes BRT routes at a much higher priority than light rail. (BRT is in the five year plan as opposed to the 30 year plan for light rail.)  However, we cannot fund any BRT or most of the busses that already run if prop A fails.  </p>
<p>You also mention real-time arrival information for BRT.  This is something Metro is working on for all bus routes, again, if they have the money to pay for it.  A GPS in each bus isn&#8217;t cheap.  By the way, the real-time arrival information in Chicago is for all regular buses, Chicago is just now beginning to introduce a BRT pilot program.  </p>
<p>BRT is a really excellent form of public transit, and I sincerely hope that we vote on April 6th in favor of funding it!</p>
<hr />
Well, we agree on one thing: BRT ought to be a big part of Metro&#8217;s future. But that is where we must part ways, as I don&#8217;t believe Proposition A is how we ought to accomplish it. The poison pill of light rail promises, which are the reason the Pro-A campaign is receiving huge contributions from construction and engineering firms which couldn&#8217;t care less about bus service, are reason enough to defeat this tax.</p>
<p>Some time ago, I spoke at length with a high ranking Metro official about Proposition M. I told him that if Metro needed operating funds, they should ask for operating funds, rather than bundling it into a package with rail expansion. A reasonable operating levy, with appropriate accountability measures, is something I would not personally oppose. If that levy was used productively, it would go a long way to restoring Metro&#8217;s credibility as it seeks funding for future expansion.</p>
<p>Instead, Metro has decided to continue to seek &#8220;the whole package&#8221; right now, forcing those who don&#8217;t have absolute faith in Metro or who disagree with light rail expansion to choose between starving Metro or funding rail. My view is that since it is Metro who has imposed this choice on voters, I have no difficulty in opposing the measure. Sadly, Metro&#8217;s customers will suffer from their dumb decision, at least until operating funding can be secured. But Metro customers have been suffering from dumb decisions for a long time. Ending that is what I&#8217;m all about.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Rail vs. Bus Rapid Transit: Which way should we go? by Patrick Richmond</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/2010/02/rail-vs-brt/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Richmond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/?p=67#comment-12</guid>
		<description>Well, I am for BRT as well as light rail.  But prop A is needed to help maintain the buses, elevators leading to the stations, kiosk lights, etc.  Without Prop A, funds aren&#039;t there to maintain the buses.  You have to buy the buses, build the stations, and also have the elevators and bridges to get the riders to the line also, that kind of stuff.  You can&#039;t just wave a magic wand and &quot;poof&quot; it&#039;s there.  It takes money to build it.  Yes it would cost less that light rail.  And just like light rail, the buses are quiet!  Gillig builds BRTs but they aren&#039;t articulated like North American Bus Industries or NABI!  But also Gillig is a good bus builder!  Also, you have to find out what shops are going to be the ones handling the repair work on them, plus you have to train your mechanics on how to work on them, and the clean up guys having to clean them.  There is an extra piece that has to be tended to. That is the &quot;turntable&quot; in the center of the bus, just like you see on MetroLink.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I am for BRT as well as light rail.  But prop A is needed to help maintain the buses, elevators leading to the stations, kiosk lights, etc.  Without Prop A, funds aren&#8217;t there to maintain the buses.  You have to buy the buses, build the stations, and also have the elevators and bridges to get the riders to the line also, that kind of stuff.  You can&#8217;t just wave a magic wand and &#8220;poof&#8221; it&#8217;s there.  It takes money to build it.  Yes it would cost less that light rail.  And just like light rail, the buses are quiet!  Gillig builds BRTs but they aren&#8217;t articulated like North American Bus Industries or NABI!  But also Gillig is a good bus builder!  Also, you have to find out what shops are going to be the ones handling the repair work on them, plus you have to train your mechanics on how to work on them, and the clean up guys having to clean them.  There is an extra piece that has to be tended to. That is the &#8220;turntable&#8221; in the center of the bus, just like you see on MetroLink.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is MetroLink a success? by Patrick Richmond</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/2010/02/is-metrolink-a-success/comment-page-1/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Richmond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/?p=86#comment-11</guid>
		<description>You are such a cheat to the St. Louis area.  MetroLink IS successful.  You are the one that is lying!  The general public is seeing who is telling the truth and by your donations, Citizens for Modern Transit is getting more money and you only have 2 contributors.  Because the public knows who is telling the truth.  Call-a-Ride is also good.  Are you out there looking for times to see when ridership is down, and not the rush hour when ridership is high?  The trains are PACKED DURING RUSH HOUR!!!!  Your conspiracy smells like a huge landfill!!  I get my figures from the REAL world where people WORK!!!  Do you care about the handicapped?  Or are you GLAD that Dr. King got shot!!!!  I don&#039;t trust psychics!!!  And Miss Cleo is a dirtbag!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are such a cheat to the St. Louis area.  MetroLink IS successful.  You are the one that is lying!  The general public is seeing who is telling the truth and by your donations, Citizens for Modern Transit is getting more money and you only have 2 contributors.  Because the public knows who is telling the truth.  Call-a-Ride is also good.  Are you out there looking for times to see when ridership is down, and not the rush hour when ridership is high?  The trains are PACKED DURING RUSH HOUR!!!!  Your conspiracy smells like a huge landfill!!  I get my figures from the REAL world where people WORK!!!  Do you care about the handicapped?  Or are you GLAD that Dr. King got shot!!!!  I don&#8217;t trust psychics!!!  And Miss Cleo is a dirtbag!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Another day, another lie by Patrick Richmond</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/2010/02/another-day-another-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Richmond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/?p=54#comment-8</guid>
		<description>Still, Prop A would also help support the buses including Bus Rapid Transit and it would help expand Call-a-Ride.  Did you attend any of the workshops?  It seems that you don&#039;t bother to look at Metro&#039;s plans to have Bus Rapid Transit and look at their light rail part so you can accuse them.  Maybe it is time I take a hammer and break your crystal ball!  It takes money to build light rail and it takes money to build BRT.  I am not saying buses are bad.  Both light rail AND bus transit is good.  So is Call-a-Ride.  Light rail is electric.  In San Francisco, they have light rail, streetcars, cable cars, and trolleybuses!  Los Angeles has Bus Rapid Transit along with light rail.  Yes, it&#039;s true that with light rail, you have to install track, ramps and sometimes, high-level platforms to get wheelchairs onboard.  Bus Rapid Transit uses articulated low-floor buses.  But you have to build stations with elevators at some places to get the handicapped to and from each stop.  And by federal law, all your stations have to be ADA accessable for the handicapped! Maybe in your stinking fantasy world, Bus Rapid Transit arrives with a wave of a magic wand.  But this is the REAL world!  It takes MONEY to build new lines.  No matter if it&#039;s a bus line, BRT line, or light rail line!
&lt;hr&gt;
&lt;b&gt;A ten mile light rail line, by Metro&#039;s own figures, would cost $600 million. A BRT line, again by Metro&#039;s own figures, would cost $30 million. If you can&#039;t see the difference, perhaps it isn&#039;t me who lives in a &quot;stinking fantasy world.&quot;&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still, Prop A would also help support the buses including Bus Rapid Transit and it would help expand Call-a-Ride.  Did you attend any of the workshops?  It seems that you don&#8217;t bother to look at Metro&#8217;s plans to have Bus Rapid Transit and look at their light rail part so you can accuse them.  Maybe it is time I take a hammer and break your crystal ball!  It takes money to build light rail and it takes money to build BRT.  I am not saying buses are bad.  Both light rail AND bus transit is good.  So is Call-a-Ride.  Light rail is electric.  In San Francisco, they have light rail, streetcars, cable cars, and trolleybuses!  Los Angeles has Bus Rapid Transit along with light rail.  Yes, it&#8217;s true that with light rail, you have to install track, ramps and sometimes, high-level platforms to get wheelchairs onboard.  Bus Rapid Transit uses articulated low-floor buses.  But you have to build stations with elevators at some places to get the handicapped to and from each stop.  And by federal law, all your stations have to be ADA accessable for the handicapped! Maybe in your stinking fantasy world, Bus Rapid Transit arrives with a wave of a magic wand.  But this is the REAL world!  It takes MONEY to build new lines.  No matter if it&#8217;s a bus line, BRT line, or light rail line!</p>
<hr />
<b>A ten mile light rail line, by Metro&#8217;s own figures, would cost $600 million. A BRT line, again by Metro&#8217;s own figures, would cost $30 million. If you can&#8217;t see the difference, perhaps it isn&#8217;t me who lives in a &#8220;stinking fantasy world.&#8221;</b></p>
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		<title>Comment on Another day, another lie by Patrick D. Richmond</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/2010/02/another-day-another-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick D. Richmond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/?p=54#comment-6</guid>
		<description>I want the service to remain.  I think that Miss Cleo is a dirtbag!  Psychics lie! I rather have my air nice and clean.  No way in the world would the North Hanley Station charge $10.00 to park.  It is time to have Nick Kasoff&#039;s fantasyland to be torn down.  Light rail is NOT a poison for Metro.  Light rail trains can run up to speeds of 55 miles an hour.  However, buses are not polluting as much as they used to.  And there ARE some routes that where the buses are FULL!!!  Take a look at MetroBus route #34!  That is a full bus!  There is Transit Oriented Development!  If we tear down Nick Kassoff&#039;s fantasyland, we could put corporations in it&#039;s place.  There are those who are in wheelchairs that needs good service!  It is time to TELL THE TRUTH!!!  I am NOT joining Citizens for Better Transit.  Citizens for Modern Transit is telling the truth.  CMT is not an orgnaization with psychics.  The park &#039;n&#039; ride lots are FREE!  Maybe in your stinking fantasyland it costs money to park in the park &#039;n&#039; ride lots.  If propositon A fails, service will be cut in half on all modes.  Making it HARDER to get to work!  I am not donating one cent to your stupid organization!!!
&lt;hr&gt;
Yes, there are some routes where the buses are full. That is why I support a fully funded, efficiently operated bus system using 21st century technology to provide excellent service to those who live in the transit accessible areas of our region. Every time we spend a stack of money on light rail, we starve the bus system that so many people depend on.

Citizens for Better Transit supports bus rapid transit, a 21st century system that provides service levels approaching light rail, at a fraction of the cost. And BRT is flexible, allowing us to change the routes as demand shifts in our region. Learn more about bus rapid transit at the website of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nbrti.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;National Bus Rapid Transit Institute&lt;/a&gt;.

Bus rapid transit benefits transit users by providing great service, flexibility to meet future needs, and affordability to preserve the solvency of our transit agency. In contrast, light rail is expensive and inflexible, and has bankrupted our transit agency. So why is Citizens for Modern Transit controlled by light rail fetishists? Could it be because the vast majority of money for these expensive campaigns comes from the very companies who will make millions of dollars from new light rail lines, but wouldn&#039;t earn a cent from bus rapid transit?

If Metro had put an operating levy on the ballot, instead of a combined levy with a promise for massive expansion of light rail, I would not be part of the campaign against it. But the very need for additional operating funds today is the result of the huge cost of the Cross-County Extension, and these fools are promising more, more, more. That&#039;s why anyone who cares about the future of transit in St. Louis should vote no. Tell Metro to go back to the drawing board, come up with a proposal for an operating subsidy, and a plan for implementing BRT in St. Louis. That is what we need, not a big tax increase to build a bad transit system.

It&#039;s no wonder that many in St. Louis think &quot;light rail is good, buses are bad.&quot; We have a bus system that hasn&#039;t changed since our grandparents rode it. Elsewhere, 21st century technology has greatly improved the bus experience for millions of riders. But not in St. Louis. Bus riders should demand that Metro focus resources on them, and quit squandering our money on light rail.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want the service to remain.  I think that Miss Cleo is a dirtbag!  Psychics lie! I rather have my air nice and clean.  No way in the world would the North Hanley Station charge $10.00 to park.  It is time to have Nick Kasoff&#8217;s fantasyland to be torn down.  Light rail is NOT a poison for Metro.  Light rail trains can run up to speeds of 55 miles an hour.  However, buses are not polluting as much as they used to.  And there ARE some routes that where the buses are FULL!!!  Take a look at MetroBus route #34!  That is a full bus!  There is Transit Oriented Development!  If we tear down Nick Kassoff&#8217;s fantasyland, we could put corporations in it&#8217;s place.  There are those who are in wheelchairs that needs good service!  It is time to TELL THE TRUTH!!!  I am NOT joining Citizens for Better Transit.  Citizens for Modern Transit is telling the truth.  CMT is not an orgnaization with psychics.  The park &#8216;n&#8217; ride lots are FREE!  Maybe in your stinking fantasyland it costs money to park in the park &#8216;n&#8217; ride lots.  If propositon A fails, service will be cut in half on all modes.  Making it HARDER to get to work!  I am not donating one cent to your stupid organization!!!</p>
<hr />
Yes, there are some routes where the buses are full. That is why I support a fully funded, efficiently operated bus system using 21st century technology to provide excellent service to those who live in the transit accessible areas of our region. Every time we spend a stack of money on light rail, we starve the bus system that so many people depend on.</p>
<p>Citizens for Better Transit supports bus rapid transit, a 21st century system that provides service levels approaching light rail, at a fraction of the cost. And BRT is flexible, allowing us to change the routes as demand shifts in our region. Learn more about bus rapid transit at the website of the <a href="http://www.nbrti.org/" rel="nofollow">National Bus Rapid Transit Institute</a>.</p>
<p>Bus rapid transit benefits transit users by providing great service, flexibility to meet future needs, and affordability to preserve the solvency of our transit agency. In contrast, light rail is expensive and inflexible, and has bankrupted our transit agency. So why is Citizens for Modern Transit controlled by light rail fetishists? Could it be because the vast majority of money for these expensive campaigns comes from the very companies who will make millions of dollars from new light rail lines, but wouldn&#8217;t earn a cent from bus rapid transit?</p>
<p>If Metro had put an operating levy on the ballot, instead of a combined levy with a promise for massive expansion of light rail, I would not be part of the campaign against it. But the very need for additional operating funds today is the result of the huge cost of the Cross-County Extension, and these fools are promising more, more, more. That&#8217;s why anyone who cares about the future of transit in St. Louis should vote no. Tell Metro to go back to the drawing board, come up with a proposal for an operating subsidy, and a plan for implementing BRT in St. Louis. That is what we need, not a big tax increase to build a bad transit system.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s no wonder that many in St. Louis think &#8220;light rail is good, buses are bad.&#8221; We have a bus system that hasn&#8217;t changed since our grandparents rode it. Elsewhere, 21st century technology has greatly improved the bus experience for millions of riders. But not in St. Louis. Bus riders should demand that Metro focus resources on them, and quit squandering our money on light rail.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Another day, another lie by Bruce Swaine</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/2010/02/another-day-another-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Swaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/?p=54#comment-5</guid>
		<description>Please stop the light rail expansion NOW!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please stop the light rail expansion NOW!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Campaign Kickoff: Thursday, Feb. 11th, 11:40 am. Shrewsbury Metro, Lansdowne by Steven</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/2010/02/campaign-kickoff-thursday-feb-11th-1140-am-shrewsbury-metro-lansdowne/comment-page-1/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/?p=17#comment-3</guid>
		<description>I would like to see the Citizens for Better Transit plan for Better Transit. Presumably the organization&#039;s name means something? Should we have more buses? Maybe try BRT? Would the region have &quot;better&quot; transit if we had no mass transit at all and focused instead of building and maintaining roads? What&#039;s your view?
&lt;hr&gt;
Citizens for Better Transit is a diverse coalition, and we don&#039;t all agree on what the perfect transit system would look like. Speaking for myself (Nick Kasoff), I&#039;d say that better transit means BRT, not light rail. Rail is great when you have walkable neighborhoods and a strong CBD. When you have suburban development and dispersed employment centers, it is useless. Rail is also very expensive, and totally inflexible. So yes, employing BRT to meet our transit needs would be wise.

And personally, I would disagree that it would be better if we had no transit, and focused all our resources on building and maintaining roads. If I was dictator, suburban commuter roads would be paid for by the suburbs which they serve, or they wouldn&#039;t be built. Building highways that make it easier to live sixty miles from where you work is foolish and unsustainable. I personally live in Ferguson, a walkable community in the urban core of our region, which is efficiently served by Metro bus service. There are always people waiting at the bus stop around here. Should we make them wait longer so we can run empty trains to Wildwood?

So to summarize, better transit to me means an efficient, fully funded bus system, serving those areas in which it can provide efficient service and in which there is sufficient demand, utilizing technology already in place elsewhere to make the bus experience better for those who depend on it. 

I oppose this proposition because it takes us in the opposite direction. If it passes, 25 years from now we&#039;ll have a couple more shiny new underutilized rail lines that people in south county and west county can take to a ball game twice a year, a broke transit agency, and a cannibalized bus system with inefficient routes and worn out buses. &lt;strong&gt;People who care about transit in St. Louis should save Metro from the rail fetishists by voting NO on Proposition A.&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to see the Citizens for Better Transit plan for Better Transit. Presumably the organization&#8217;s name means something? Should we have more buses? Maybe try BRT? Would the region have &#8220;better&#8221; transit if we had no mass transit at all and focused instead of building and maintaining roads? What&#8217;s your view?</p>
<hr />
Citizens for Better Transit is a diverse coalition, and we don&#8217;t all agree on what the perfect transit system would look like. Speaking for myself (Nick Kasoff), I&#8217;d say that better transit means BRT, not light rail. Rail is great when you have walkable neighborhoods and a strong CBD. When you have suburban development and dispersed employment centers, it is useless. Rail is also very expensive, and totally inflexible. So yes, employing BRT to meet our transit needs would be wise.</p>
<p>And personally, I would disagree that it would be better if we had no transit, and focused all our resources on building and maintaining roads. If I was dictator, suburban commuter roads would be paid for by the suburbs which they serve, or they wouldn&#8217;t be built. Building highways that make it easier to live sixty miles from where you work is foolish and unsustainable. I personally live in Ferguson, a walkable community in the urban core of our region, which is efficiently served by Metro bus service. There are always people waiting at the bus stop around here. Should we make them wait longer so we can run empty trains to Wildwood?</p>
<p>So to summarize, better transit to me means an efficient, fully funded bus system, serving those areas in which it can provide efficient service and in which there is sufficient demand, utilizing technology already in place elsewhere to make the bus experience better for those who depend on it. </p>
<p>I oppose this proposition because it takes us in the opposite direction. If it passes, 25 years from now we&#8217;ll have a couple more shiny new underutilized rail lines that people in south county and west county can take to a ball game twice a year, a broke transit agency, and a cannibalized bus system with inefficient routes and worn out buses. <strong>People who care about transit in St. Louis should save Metro from the rail fetishists by voting NO on Proposition A.</strong></p>
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		<title>Comment on Another day, another lie by Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/2010/02/another-day-another-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stoptheprop.com/wordpress/?p=54#comment-2</guid>
		<description>You need to back up your assertion with some numbers. I saw your comment to a post on the St. Louis Urban Workshop and did the numbers. You tell me where I&#039;m wrong....

2009 average attendance = 41,000

20% of 41,000 = 8,200

MetroLink 2-car train capacity = 356 x 2 (for one train in each direction) = 712 (and there are likely quite a few more than that, but this is official stated capacity)

8,200 passengers / 712 passengers per train = 11.5 trains needed

2 trains every 15min = 86.25 minutes to transport 8,200 passengers.

Again, I&#039;m sure that there are more people on those trains than the stated capacity. Even so, I calculate 1hr 26min. And this would be 57.5 minutes with the old 10min schedule. With fans leaving the stadium across a time period of 30 minutes or more, depending on the score/weather/etc. it&#039;s seems easy enough to transport that many passengers. Plus, quite a few go downtown early to eat, or stay downtown afterward, further spreading out demand.
&lt;hr&gt;
First, the 2nd advertisement says that Metro delivers &quot;10,000 fans&quot; to the stadium, not 8,200. Second, there seems to be some variation as to the capacity of these trains. I&#039;ve seen anything from 176 up to your 356. I don&#039;t remember where the figure of 200 came from, but Metro&#039;s own site says &quot;72-seated passengers and more than 100 standing passengers.&quot; Now that I think about it, that must be for a single, which they never run. So if we say 400, then we&#039;re talking 25 trains, not 50. At six trains per hour in both directions, we&#039;re now talking &quot;only&quot; two hours and ten minutes, assuming that all trains in both directions are completely full. But of course, we know that trains going east aren&#039;t nearly as full as trains going west. If we assume that the eastbound line carries half as many passengers as the westbound line over the period in question (it probably isn&#039;t even that much), we&#039;re still talking three hours before the last passenger is carried on the westbound line.

You are right that, to some extent, arrivals may be staggered. But departures are not. When people get out of a game at 10:00 on a work night, all but the most hardy partiers are going straight home. And the person who doesn&#039;t get back to North Hanley Station until 1:30 am (10:00 + 3 hour wait + 1/2 hour trip) is never going to ride Metrolink again.

Aside from that, however, is the question of whether special event ridership is even a suitable justification for such a large expenditure. Most baseball games take place during times when the highways are not crowded, and most people who ride Metrolink to the game are driving to a station. So instead of paying twenty bucks for parking, they park for free and pay $4.50 for a round-trip Metrolink ticket. How many of these riders would ride Metrolink if they charged $10 to park at North Hanley on game days? 

More important is, how many of these riders would take Metro to work if it increased their commute time from 1/2 hour to over an hour? I used to commute on the now defunct St. Charles county express bus to Met Square, and that was reality. I hate driving. But there was never more than a dozen people on that bus.

So now we get to my ultimate point: There are people out there who need transit, and who use it daily. We should design our transit system to provide &lt;strong&gt;them&lt;/strong&gt; with the best possible service. That means full funding for the bus system, and improving bus service with technology that is in place in other cities. In order to do that, &lt;strong&gt;we must not expand light rail at all&lt;/strong&gt;.

Speaking for myself (Nick Kasoff) - and I must say that because there are others in this group who would not agree - if they had put forth a small operating levy, with no funding or promises for light rail expansion, I probably would not be actively opposing it. Light rail is a poison pill for Metro, and is destroying the system for those who need it most. That&#039;s why I believe that anyone who really cares about transit should be working against this proposition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You need to back up your assertion with some numbers. I saw your comment to a post on the St. Louis Urban Workshop and did the numbers. You tell me where I&#8217;m wrong&#8230;.</p>
<p>2009 average attendance = 41,000</p>
<p>20% of 41,000 = 8,200</p>
<p>MetroLink 2-car train capacity = 356 x 2 (for one train in each direction) = 712 (and there are likely quite a few more than that, but this is official stated capacity)</p>
<p>8,200 passengers / 712 passengers per train = 11.5 trains needed</p>
<p>2 trains every 15min = 86.25 minutes to transport 8,200 passengers.</p>
<p>Again, I&#8217;m sure that there are more people on those trains than the stated capacity. Even so, I calculate 1hr 26min. And this would be 57.5 minutes with the old 10min schedule. With fans leaving the stadium across a time period of 30 minutes or more, depending on the score/weather/etc. it&#8217;s seems easy enough to transport that many passengers. Plus, quite a few go downtown early to eat, or stay downtown afterward, further spreading out demand.</p>
<hr />
First, the 2nd advertisement says that Metro delivers &#8220;10,000 fans&#8221; to the stadium, not 8,200. Second, there seems to be some variation as to the capacity of these trains. I&#8217;ve seen anything from 176 up to your 356. I don&#8217;t remember where the figure of 200 came from, but Metro&#8217;s own site says &#8220;72-seated passengers and more than 100 standing passengers.&#8221; Now that I think about it, that must be for a single, which they never run. So if we say 400, then we&#8217;re talking 25 trains, not 50. At six trains per hour in both directions, we&#8217;re now talking &#8220;only&#8221; two hours and ten minutes, assuming that all trains in both directions are completely full. But of course, we know that trains going east aren&#8217;t nearly as full as trains going west. If we assume that the eastbound line carries half as many passengers as the westbound line over the period in question (it probably isn&#8217;t even that much), we&#8217;re still talking three hours before the last passenger is carried on the westbound line.</p>
<p>You are right that, to some extent, arrivals may be staggered. But departures are not. When people get out of a game at 10:00 on a work night, all but the most hardy partiers are going straight home. And the person who doesn&#8217;t get back to North Hanley Station until 1:30 am (10:00 + 3 hour wait + 1/2 hour trip) is never going to ride Metrolink again.</p>
<p>Aside from that, however, is the question of whether special event ridership is even a suitable justification for such a large expenditure. Most baseball games take place during times when the highways are not crowded, and most people who ride Metrolink to the game are driving to a station. So instead of paying twenty bucks for parking, they park for free and pay $4.50 for a round-trip Metrolink ticket. How many of these riders would ride Metrolink if they charged $10 to park at North Hanley on game days? </p>
<p>More important is, how many of these riders would take Metro to work if it increased their commute time from 1/2 hour to over an hour? I used to commute on the now defunct St. Charles county express bus to Met Square, and that was reality. I hate driving. But there was never more than a dozen people on that bus.</p>
<p>So now we get to my ultimate point: There are people out there who need transit, and who use it daily. We should design our transit system to provide <strong>them</strong> with the best possible service. That means full funding for the bus system, and improving bus service with technology that is in place in other cities. In order to do that, <strong>we must not expand light rail at all</strong>.</p>
<p>Speaking for myself (Nick Kasoff) &#8211; and I must say that because there are others in this group who would not agree &#8211; if they had put forth a small operating levy, with no funding or promises for light rail expansion, I probably would not be actively opposing it. Light rail is a poison pill for Metro, and is destroying the system for those who need it most. That&#8217;s why I believe that anyone who really cares about transit should be working against this proposition.</p>
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